Banh Mi with Caramel Roast Pork and Some Banh Mi Experimenting

I seem to be a bit sandwich obsessed at the minute and whilst I'm keeping that theme going I'm moving from the US for this one.

Last year I travelled the length of Vietnam and one of the foods that really stuck out was the Vietnamese baguette, known locally as banh mi.  The combination of light, crispy bread, various pork products, sweet and crunchy pickled veg and fresh herbs and sauces was a taste and texture explosion in every bite.  At the time I thought they needed some UK exposure but didn't expect them to blow up in such a big way in such a short time.  Less than a year after my return they seem to be the taste of the moment in London.  The first I knew of was the lovely Banh Mi 11 on Broadway Market (in my adopted Hackney) but this has been followed by numerous others and with more to follow, including one I'm particularly looking forward to due to their use of the Hoi An style pointy baguette - City Caphe

This is all well and good for those in London but what about everyone elsewhere?  Or for those like me where eating isn't enough and a quest for knowledge of the makings of things overwhelms?  Hopefully this will help.

Much has been written online about the banh mi baguette (strictly just banh mi), how to achieve the light inside and crisp, thin exterior.  Rice flour is a common ingredient - a sworn requirement for some - whereas others manage without it.  I wonder myself how much the drippingly humid heat of Vietnam plays a part.  Moisture definitely has a pivotal role in crust development whilst baking and the difference between the air over here and over there is like chalk and cheese.  Recipes online were thin on the ground though and one common one, which uses equal rice and wheat flour, just seems like it shouldn't work (rice flour lacks the all important gluten and 50% of the mix is a huge amount to go gluten free) and there's plenty of comments from those who have attempted it saying it doesn't, the rice flour making it heavier rather than the desired lighter crumb.

Reading can only get you so far though so I set about experimenting myself, keeping all other things constant (maybe not the best for different flours but as good a start as any) and just altering what the 200gr of flour consisted of.  My base recipe was:

200gr flour 

140gr water (70% using the % method)

1 ts dried yeast

1/2 ts salt

1/2 ts sugar

and for the flour I used 100% strong, 50/50 strong/plain (I read somewhere that Oriental flours are softer than our bread flour) and 25/37.5/37.5 rice/strong/plain.  They were all kneaded using the Richard Bertinet recommended pick up and slap down method, risen for an hour then shaped into 2 baguettes per mix and given another 45 mins or so till doubled.  In the oven they got 20-25 minutes with a good spraying of water into the oven at the start for that all important steam.

Even before we'd reached this stage though something didn't seem right with the rice flour containing dough.  Kneading away I could tell it was woefully lacking in gluten, whilst the pure wheat flour recipes developed that familiar stretch and spring as I worked them the dough in this case was a lot less resilient, losing the occasional lump as I swung the dough onto the work surface.  It came together in the end, and rose very well, but was a bit fragile. 

After baking there was a clear winner and there was no rice flour in sight.  The 100% strong white had the nicest, most golden crust and the softest crumb.  Whilst the rice flour dough had risen fine prior to the oven it didn't seem to rise any more in the oven leaving it small and heavy.  I ate it though and there was a definite thin crunch to the crust not present in the pure wheat flour doughs, enough to make me want to experiment further.  On the day though 100% strong won and that's where the filling went.  Some point in the future I will try some different combinations, first off 80/20 strong/rice to try and get a rise from the gluten with the thin crispy crust the rice flour is hinting at (have tried this now, see Further Experiments and Thoughts note at end).

For the filling I decided to play on the braised caramel pork belly dish that I'd had many times before both in England and Vietnam.  Rather than braising pork belly in fish sauce and sugar though I mixed palm sugar and fish sauce together and rubbed it on some pork shoulder which I then roasted.  The sweet, salty crust and juicy roast meat was a winner.

For the all important pickled vegetables I used this recipe and was more than pleased with the result - crunchy yet tender and with a pleasant balance of sour and sweet. 

The banh mi were completed with chili sauce (Thai sirachi as I had no Vietnamese), mayonaisse, cucumber and coriander.  Even if I say so myself they worked a treat, sending me straight back to the streets of Hoi An, probably helped by the recent warm sun and the greenhouse effect of the three huge east facing windows in my living room.

Banh Mi with Caramel Roast Pork

Ingredients

Individual baguettes, either bake your own above (I'd go for pure strong flour) or buy some

Caramel Roast pork, see below

Pickled Carrot and Daikon

Cucumber, seeded and cut into batons

Green Chilies, thinly sliced

Coriander

Chili Sauce

Mayonaisse

Method

Split the baguettes, I've heard some Vietnamese pull some of the bread out the middle just leaving a crisp shell (and more room to put filling in).

Spread each half with mayonnaise and then fill with pickled veg, cucumber spears, coriander, chilies and roast pork - this is a sandwich so you can put as much or as little of each thing as you want.  Add chili sauce to taste.

Caramel Roast Pork

Ingredients

1kg pork shoulder

1 TB palm sugar

3 TB fish sauce

Method

Take the skin off the shoulder and save for something else.  Butterfly the meat to leave a slab about 5cm thick.

Mix the palm sugar and fish sauce and rub all over the meat.  Leave to marinate for a bit if you have the time.

Roast at 160C for 2 hours.  You can brown under a grill at the end if you want, it may be nicely browned already though.

Further Experiments and Thoughts

Since this day I have tried 80/20 strong and rice flour.  Again there was hints of a thin crisp crust but again the rice flour made the crumb denser and the oven spring was limited leaving a thin baguette.  I'm thinking rice flour soaks up more water so I'm going to try again upping the water a bit.  I'm also thinking rice flour may take longer to hydrate so I'm going to mix the rice flour and the water and leave it for a couple of hours before carrying on with the rest of the recipe.  Anything I do will be reported back to the blog.  In the mean time it's 100% strong flour for my banh mi.

Comments

[Lizzie]

Awesome. top marks for full effort - the pickles look great (as does the banh mi).

[Full Beard]

You should call in at Panda Panda next time you're Deptford way.

I'm not an experienced Banh Mi eater, but what I've had there has left me hankering for another visit ever since.

[Su-Lin]

Wow - baking your own Vietnamese baguettes too? That's hardcore! I love the pickles - might have to make myself a jar to last me through the week.

[Helen]

I'll definitely try your caramel pork recipe. I too thought that the banh mi would explode. I remember a year ago everyone was saying you can't get one in London, now they pop up everywhere. Cafe Bay seemed to be one of the first places to start doing them. They are not even particularly good banh mi, but in the wasteland near King's hospital (where I used to work) they were an absolute life saver.

[Leluu]

You are fantastic with your attempts - if I ever dare to make banh mi - I will try it with the strong flour. Its really interesting how the rice flour one of yours didn't turn out. It could be the weather and also I am not sure how they bake it - they don't have ovens really!

My mother always pulls the bit in the middle out of the banh mi - she says its always better to have more filling instead of bread too. (nice that you picked that up)

My cousin has found a new love for mayo and puts it in everything now! The best banh mi I've had is at the railway station in Ho Chi Minh - the pickles makes the most difference and a good marinade with the pork. But adding 'cha' the traditional Vietnamese ham also adds another interesting note to the filling.

I want to ask my cousin to find out how they make banh mi next door to where she lives - her neighbours make the most money on the street just by selling banh mi with offal! - I heard you like a bit of that! Will report back.

[Joshua Armstrong]

Lizzie - the pickles are so easy, although heard they don't really keep so may want to reduce recipe size

Full Beard - next time in Deptford will be my first time. Heard Panda Panda is good though.

Su-Lin - it's been good fun trying, although just can't get that rice flour to work

Helen - their rise has been astronomical, they're well worthy of it though. A poor banh mi should still be a pretty good sandwich

Leluu - I'd heard about that middle removal (although maybe from you). I'm wondering if that would work with my rice flour attempts as the outside did have a lovely thin crunch. If anyone could tell me how to bake one properly I'd been eternally in their debt (well owe them one anyway).

I'm really keen to get some pate in them and wouldn't say no to the Vietnamese ham. I see a trip to Mare St coming on.

[Leluu]

When you are next in Mare St, let me know, I am intrigued to know what you know about what to buy : ) Oh! and come round for dinner !

[Joshua Armstrong]

Will do, would love to hit the supermarket with you. I'd hazard a guess that I don't know too much about what to buy, well maybe more than your average punter but nothing like a local, always keen to learn though and you can tell me the name of all the herbs.

[Gillordeincatering.wordpress.com]

I remember reading about Banh Mi last year... it might have been an Anthony Bourdain thing. This recipe looks great, kudos for baking your own bread. Do you know of any where north of London... ie Scotland where I could hunt this down? I should just make it myself, I know.

Look forward to updates on the baking front.

[Joshua Armstrong]

I think they're very popular in the States, although Bourdain was likely travelling to source.

I've heard somewhere in Manchester sells them. Outside of that my knowledge kinda ends with London.

[Becci]

The bread is one of things I remember most about Vietnam. Every time we moved from one place to the next we had to get up super early to get the bus and the only things we could buy for breakfast were banh mi and bananas. Vietnam and banana sandwiches will live in my memory for ever.

This looks delish - I'm very impressed with your efforts.
x

[Joshua Armstrong]

Cheers, the secret of it looking delish is lots of natural light, hence all three photos being taken on the windowsill. In fact the banh mi is kind of being held outside the flat to get it nicely lit (the pain of afternoon blogging when every window in your flat points east).

The bread was one thing I was really looking forward to after I saw the Fat Bikers eating noodle soup with baguette in their 'Nam episode. Not sure I ever got around to having that combo but did look for it.

I think I'd have had the banh mi and banana separately.